Truth & Reconciliation: IMMORTAL TECHNIQUEINTRO
In the long-running, yet rather one-sided war of words between ‘conscious’ and ‘commercial’ rappers, there’s been no shortage of emcees queuing up for flashy accolades as teachers and leaders of the latest lost generation. Rap is however crying out for those who care less about titles and more about substantial achievement as they teach from experience and lead by example. Countless rappers have preached from pulpits and attempted to inspire from their ivory towers but Immortal Technique speaks as one thoroughly in the thick of it. Previous generations of Reality Rappers may hark back to a self-serving reimagination of where they’ve been or cast a lucrative glance to the path taken by their peers but Immortal technique speaks as someone himself still up to his neck in struggle. Immortal Technique’s uncompromising; unsanetised work echoes the belief that for one to surmount their circumstances, they must first fully understand their circumstances. Furthermore, there’s no point trying to escape one’s geographic or economic confines without first wholeheartedly accepting yourself, rough edges, contradictions and all. Political correctness don’t come cheap and the down-trodden can’t always mind their Ps and Qs so for those who may take objection to the perceived misogyny, homophobia and misanthropic venom of Immortal Technique’s punch lines, don’t be a hater of the hate that hate made.
When I submitted the following interview transcript for the interviewee’s clarification and approval, Felipe Coronel expressed sincere worries about being perceived as excessively aggressive. Whereas many rappers love simplistic titles andtypecasting, Coronel recoils from the popular perception of his rap alter ego as some one-dimensional spout of cartoon rage. Yes Immortal Technique is often angry – but then that’s hardly surprising when the blood of so many wronged peoples Courses through his veins. Fortunately (for himself, those around him and us Heads), ‘Tech has figured out how to take centuries of injustice, generations of suffering and years of disaffection and channel them into powerful, cathartic words of Street wisdom and inspirational constructive deeds. It would have been all to easy to have quizzed ‘Tech about his activities in the studio but since that will all, soon*, be revealed to us all, I thought the interview slot would be better used to try and probe Immortal Technique on the ideas and experiences that motivate his activities in the recording studio. So, as him and I discuss anything and everything but hip hop, I hope the following interview will help to move awareness of Immortal Technique beyond that of some mere punch-happy, punch line emcee….
Note: The following interview was originally conducted in the spring of 2007.
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You’re famed for your staunch independence and self-reliant business plan. I would suggest that, in one way, this puts yourself at a disadvantage because you don’t have as much control over your material circulating as say, a major label artist does. To give you an example, there’s so many mp3s of you out there and mixtape cuts and it’s all the same material but it’s all given different names and there’s a lot of cut & pasting of your verses, presented as new material. Do you feel disadvantaged in that sense in that you haven’t got as much control over your output and what people do with it as a signed artist would?
Immortal Technique: Nah!. People do that to every artist. People take mp3s of their music and scratch it up with somebody else’s. Sometimes they do it in a mixtape and they get legitimised because they have a graphic designer that puts it out on a [professionally manufactured] CD. Other people just have random songs out there. I don’t take it as a disadvantage because there are more people out there listening to my music. I don’t think that anybody should feel that way. I think the issue with independence is more of a question of retail sales. In terms of the subject matter that I have, I always wanted to be an individual that presented himself, not just for being revolutionary in terms of making songs, but in terms of that being part of my business practice. If that’s not who I am as a person, then me saying “I’m revolutionary” is just about as fake as somebody who talks about selling crack or being a hustler when there’s none of that in his real persona. To me, it’s more about being as prolific and as real as I can about the world, and, at the same time, maintaining my integrity as a man, the ownership of my masters and publishing. I was never opposed to working things on a larger scale and having more circulation in terms of retail sales or in terms of being able to travel into new markets. But at the same time, to me, it was always a question of how they were going to approach me in the business realm. I’m not going to tolerate them coming and owning the whole project or them having creative control over how I present myself as a person. At some point, people say “Oh your image is being this…” but I don’t have an “image” homey: That’s actually who I am. I don’t decide to wake up and put on a mask and perform. The pain that I speak about is real. The struggle that I talk about in my music is real. The war on terror is real. The war on drugs is real. Yet, it’s designed to be perceived the same way a loaded question or a straw man argument would – or the way the media perceives and portrays things. You might think that my music is violent but at the same time you look at a government with a smiling face telling you that it cares about you and see them as protective or harmless to you. There’s some serious questions you need to ask yourself about your perspective on the world and how it’s been made to be that way.
And staying with the business side of things… Would you be open to sponsorship from a company or the merchandising side of things? You say you haven’t got an image but would you be willing to lend your name?
Immortal Technique: Obviously I’m going to have an image regardless. People already say ”he’s militant…he’s violent…. he’s aggressive…” What I mean by “an image” is a commercially contrived image whereby someone else will say, “I want to be a pimp in the media…. I want to have flashy clothes…I want to be…” It’s not a question of me not working with clothing companies or nothing like that. I go to shows all the time and people give me free clothes to wear and I’m like “Yeah, y’know what? If it’s for your little T-shirt Company, I’ll rock it and take a picture with you or whatever.” If they’re supporters and if they’re people who enterprise then yeah. But in terms of endorsing – suttin’ like that? Then they need to have the proper paperwork. The paperwork that indicates that none of the clothes are made with slave labour. The paperwork that confirms that these are people are individuals that aren’t just making shirts but who are putting out a message with the clothing work that they do. It goes a lot deeper than that. There’s a difference between being pragmatic and proactive.
You mentioned sweatshop slavery there and I’m not sure if you’re aware but over here in the UK, we’re currently commemorating the two-hundredth anniversary of Britain’s withdrawal from the trans-Atlantic slave trade. There’s been a lot of discussion in the media about how we should commemorate it and in fact, certain people have been asking should we be commemorating it? In light of the fact that We still buy all this sweatshop fashion and all this plantation coffee & cigarettes, is it right to commemorate the abolition of slavery and if so, how should we be commemorating it here in the UK?
Immortal Technique: ‘ight. See this is an interesting thing. This brings up the argument of colonialism vs. neo-colonialism. Now I know America gets a lot of flack for being a colonial power but America itself is the bastard child of the British Empire. I think that Britain gets a pass a lot of times because they see British males and British leaders, when they speak in the media, as being very eloquent. “Oh he speaks so well with such proper English.” But all the time, it’s that imagery of imperial entitlement and y’all Niggas weren’t entitled to a muthafuckin’ thing in Africa. What the hell did y’all ever bring there except famine, destruction and terror? And then, when You left – and I’m not just talking about White people in general – but I’m talking about how institutional racism was what you left in Africa. It was left all over the world by not just America but the UK through neo-colonialism after slavery. Now you have a Black president of a country in Africa but he doesn’t control the economy. The economy is still controlled by Europeans. So that fits directly to your question when you say to me “We’re commemorating the end of slavery” but these countries are still enslaved. They might not have a chain around their necks but there’s still racists even if they might not be dressed as Nazis or have a white sheet around their heads. There are conservatives who are apologists for slavery who don’t want to commemorate it and in that way, they’re legitimising the fact that there are significant percentages of people in your country and here in mine that believe that “We civilised those people.” There is still that idea and it comes from the simple fact that America and Britain were basically cowards – and I’ll explain to you how. Rather than saying “I came to your country, I stole your women, I stole your land, I stole your labour and I did it because I had the power to do it” – that’s not what Britain or America was able to do. In order to make that possible, in order to facilitate slavery; they had to introduce scientific racism. Scientific Racism was the basis for maintaining slavery: the idea that Black and Brown and indigenous people of the world were genetically inferior to White people. Now you and me can sit down together and think about this and think how ridiculous of an idea that really is. It’s like “C’mon! How can Black people be the missing link between man and monkey? That’s ridiculous!?” But that’s Social Darwinism and that’s the perspective that so many respected people and scientific communities of Britain and America had. And we’re not talking about four hundred years ago: I’m talking about fifty-eighty years ago. Who were the eugenics programmes of fifty or so years ago designed to control the birth rate of? Not White people: Black and Latino people. So fuck clothes nigga! We’re talking about real life here. We’re talking about the way the world is designed in relation to the mechanics of the global economic community that’s of course controlled by you know who. The real question is not who’s in control now or who sacrifices what now but as the planet continues to suffer from global warming and as resources run dry, who’s going to have to carry that? America? The UK? Or the third world – the people who’ve been carrying the load forever!? I think people forget that. They go watch that movie Elizabeth or The Queen or whatever the fuck they show and they think “Oh Wow! What a strong Queen.” But let me tell you something about that bitch Elizabeth. She got to be where she was (with that forty years of her golden rule that was at the end of the movie) because of slavery. Her Reign was facilitated by the slave trade because they went into it hard during her reign.
Again, you might not be aware of it but last week here in the UK, we had a charity telethon event called “Comic Relief” where they use comedy and light entertainment to raise money for African charities and for poverty-related charities in the UK. I was going to ask you, do you think it’s… Well I’ll put it to you, I think it’s demeaning to make this a charity issue and to give the impression that people have to embarrass themselves to give to charity and to feel sorry for people in Africa.
Immortal Technique: Well I think there’s pros and cons to events like that. On the one hand, it’s good to give to people who are in a less fortunate situation than you and that’s the basis of charity and that’s a positive thing to do regardless as to whether you’re helping an orphanage in Africa or you’re doing work where ever. On the other hand, the problem is not just the way that it’s given but, a lot of times, it’s given with a certain premise – like they have missionary work where they say “Okay. Well we’ll give these people money but they have to ally themselves to our religion and they have to adhere to our religious policies.” And remember that religion is not about controlling the way you see God but controlling the way you see the physical world – that’s the whole point of religion. People use religion to facilitate whatever politics they want in a specific region and they achieve this through money, missionary work or whatever it may be. That’s half of what we’re discussing here. The other half is that when you have these types of fund-raisers, yeah they may have a lot of money coming in through them but yeah, I think you’re right, they need to be redefined. It can’t be “We’re taking money out of our pockets to give to you” – what really should be given is as a historical perspective of the donor nations’ involvement in the diamond trade and the gold trade and the slave trade (and all those things) and what needs to be addressed is to have reparations. In America, we’ll talk about Affirmative Action all day and conservatives love to bash that. They start to get real fidgety when you start talking about “affirmative action” and they’ll dismiss it but the government over here is terrified of it because there is a legal premise for reparations; for national reparations; for international reparations.
Okay yeah.. But from whom to whom? I’ll put it to you, the biggest produce from slavery (and that period of history) was things like sugar and tobacco and they’ve caused health problems worldwide. Every race suffers from addiction to those things.
Immortal Technique: Not just those products and their problems but also, all the major banking industries that are still established today and which occupy high positions in the stock market, where do you think they got that capital to start up their companies? What do you think gave them the solid foundations? These people could have a bad year for the next twenty or thirty years and they still would be okay. They wouldn’t have to sell their summer home in France. They’re fine. And yet, our people starve consistently and are continuously battered down by the global economy. Capitalism is designed to be very uneven across all areas. It works between certain nations, for the top tier and the protectorate of that top tier and the mercantile industries. But if you think about it, the capitalism that exists between America and the UK or America and Germany is very different to the capitalism that exists between America and Liberia or America and Sierra Leone or America and Colombia. It’s different to the capitalism, which exists between, say, England and Pakistan.
So drawing on that, what form, would you say, these reparations should take? Who should be paying?
Immortal Technique: I think there needs to be…well not a Spanish inquisition but definitely an inquisition. There needs to be an uprooting of all the international records for a public inquisition. We know that there are lots of detailed records that the government wont release so we need to see these detailed records of exactly what was done. Slavery is not like simply a question of snatching someone from another country; kidnapping them; putting them through Stockholm Syndrome and then bringing them here and having them happy to clean everything and build your nation for you. I think slavery is a process – an indoctrinatory process – and it’s a process in which the government cannot deny its direct involvement. We’re not just talking about just slavery but then the aftermath of slavery that lasted until maybe fifty years ago which we still feel now. Until fifty years ago, the reverberations of slavery were still institutionalised. Now, they’re not as institutionalised but there are still the remnants of it in pockets of governments. There is still racism within the institutions of government. There’s still racism in the police force; there’s racism in the entertainment industry; there’ll be racism in some fire departments. And it’s not really as noticeable but it’s more damaging when you find it in the scientific community or when you find it in the economic industries that exist, in the way they perceive doing business with an African, Latin American or South-East Asian nation – especially whereas they take a completely different attitude when they do business with a White nation or when they do business with another European nation. So I think those are things that we need to examine. We need to open up the records of the past. We need to open up the records of companies that are doing business with dictatorial regimes – even the ones that we’re “Friendly” with. It’s not a question of people focussing, all the time, on White people oppressing Black and Brown People – for a long time (during the Middle ages) White people oppressed themselves. They had slavery. Sure, they called it “Feudalism” but it’s slavery. Jus primae noctis (you spent the first night with the wife of whoever was working on your land) wasn’t some dumb shit that was just in Scotland: that was prevalent throughout a lot of places in Europe. The Serfs that lived in Europe were seen as slaves. That economic foundation for a working relationship never really left the idea of capitalism. To look at it through that perspective, you have to realise that now, it’s not just White people who are enslaving Black, Brown or Asian people but rather, they are backing up dictatorial regimes in those countries that do enslave their people. Many regimes have horrible human rights records but because they have a good economic relationship with the UK or European countries or America, they’re given a pass. They can be a democracy like Venezuela or they could be a horrible dictatorial regime like Iran or wherever the fuck it is – you could have a kingdom like you do in Saudi-Arabia that treats women worse than the Taliban and yet they’re given a pass? Those are the sorts of things we need to draw a correlation from the past to the future.
You’re not only somebody who believes what they say but you also practise what you preach. However, as a listener, do you have to agree with what you’re hearing to appreciate it? For an example, if you heard an emcee who came out supporting Bush, championing rampant individualism and this that and the other, could you appreciate him as an artist? Even if you totally disagreed with what he said?
Immortal Technique: I respect people and I respect people to have opinions if they’re willing to fight for them. I wouldn’t respect that opinion and I wouldn’t respect their political philosophy though. It’s interesting you mention that because right now, I think, we’re stuck in a countdown waiting until somebody actually has the balls to do that. And it’s not necessarily about somebody having the balls to do that – fact is, that’s not too far away: people politicising hip hop for another perspective. The only difference is that the founders of hip hop were extremely revolutionary people that had the mind-frame to make this about more than just music. Would I be able to listen to someone who was blatantly racist? Nah, I don’t know about all that – but as for them supporting some candidate that I didn’t personally believe in? Hmmm…
You’ve polarised the argument by going to the extreme of “racist” – I just mean somebody of a differing viewpoint
Immortal Technique: No-no-no, OK. Of course, I would play them if they had a different viewpoint. I can’t necessarily guarantee that I would love their song because that would depend on the music – but I have listened to people and artists who’ve made statements or who have done things that I believe are contrary to my views. I will stand for things because people say things with their actions as artists a lot more than with words in their songs. I have listened to their music before and I’ve definitely listened to songs with topics that I don’t approve of or which aren’t my personal prerogative – that doesn’t stop me from listening to the music. I don’t put it on heavy rotation and live my life by it but I’ll hear it a few times to understand why they think that way and understand why they had those ideas that they base their understanding of the world upon. I think it’s important to take in other peoples’ ideas and perspectives. That doesn’t mean you have to legitimise it – you should definitely discriminate any information that comes into your life before you automatically assimilate it into your worldview and take it as fact. A lot of times, I think people base that solely on the ways an individual is willing to fight for their convictions.
And just to flip that question around, have you ever encountered a really atypical fan or somebody who you never expected to be a fan of yours?
Immortal Technique: Of course. There are people who don’t necessarily believe everything I say but I challenge them to go look up the information that I talk about or I challenge them by saying “Okay. If you don’t like my music, tell me why.” Because it could be like “I don’t agree with this particular part of what you said” and we can build from there. I’ve had people for example who, when I’ve mentioned in a song about a dead baby, they were like “well why do you talk about abortion and that shit? I’m a Christian and I resent that.” Look, if you approach me in the wrong way, I’m not going to play games with you. I’ll knock your ass out. But if you approach me in a peaceful and understanding way like “Yo, I just want to share this with you and if you have the time, could you explain this to me?” I’m not a bastard. I’m not going to be like “Nah fuck you!” I’ve literally taken time out of my day or time out of going somewhere to sit down and have a five-ten minute conversation with somebody to say “’ight. If you are a Christian and you really believe in the principles of Christianity, then I applaud that. But you have to realise that the individuals who run this nation, who run this war and who have championed your cause, only do that so they can get your vote and maintain the political power to put their economic agenda through in this country.” Abortion is not going to be repealed any fucking time soon – get that notion out of your head. It’s a practical method of population control for the government and that’s the way they see it. So regardless to pandering to your religious fervour? They don’t give a fuck about that. That’s not their agenda: Their agenda is to consolidate the economy. America is losing a trade war to India and China – in fact, they’re really kinda envious of China because China has a Communist social structure and a Communist government but has a capitalist economy and that’s what America likes. America wants to be like them: “Fuck! We should have this communist-type Big Brother regime where we ban shit on Google and then go spend our money around the world like some wild capitalist niggas!” If anybody’s going to tell me that China has a Maoist economy, you’re living in a fucking red book homey! You need to wake up. That’s the reality of it right now. So when I look at it from other peoples’ perspectives, I sit down with them and I share with them and say “Hey! Why don’t we open up a dialog between some of these people?” There are people on the other side that I’m more than willing to talk with: I learn stuff from them and they learn stuff from me and all they want really is for someone to legitimise what they see as their pain and struggle in the world. If I can open eyes to people about different things and say, “OK, yeah you live in America and things are pretty messed-up here. But before you complain to me about your White-mans’-burden homey, I think you should realise that what’s happening in Africa is a direct result of what we’re doing here.” Talking about the War on terror: We’re all caring and religious when it comes to Christians suffering but with the people who are dying in Iraq as a result of The War on terror – dying as part of that “Collateral damage” – Are you prepared to license that as a “Christian?” Are their lives worth less than you because they are Muslims? If God is truly god, and if he designed the world to be as it is, then isn’t it his will for people to be that way? Isn’t it his will to say “OK: there are people who are going to see me in a different light and call me by a different name.” At the end of the day, if you think that being an individual of morally ambiguous character who believes in Jesus Christ is going to get you into heaven rather than somebody of a different religion (be he Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish or some other religion) well then see, that’s the major idea that some people have in order to try and give legitimacy to their political perspectives. Some people like to paint everyone else’s’ ideas as if it’s sparked by lunacy and they don’t legitimize anybody else’s struggle or anybody else’s pain because nobody’s as real as they are – and that’s some of the most pretentious, self-righteous shit that you can possibly do. So I really try to stay away from that. I don’t mean to single out Christianity here. I’m just talking about this in terms of what’s relevant to most peoples’ perspective. I know a lot of Christians who are committed to revolution and committed to exposing the truth so I don’t want to alienate anybody. People who don’t share my political ideas? I don’t think they’re crazy – that’s the problems with conservatives in America and out there in England: They think that people who don’t share their political ideas are “crazy” or trying to give government over to “the terrorists.” I don’t think anybody wants terrorists in their government. I don’t think that any middle-Eastern people want terrorists in their government. I don’t think anybody from Asia wants terrorists in their government – and we didn’t want y’all terrorists when you came here in 1492! We didn’t want you here but you came here anyway. If we’re not willing to learn from other peoples’ experiences and their struggles and what they’re going through, well then we’re never going to understand our own experiences and struggles any better.
That’s great. Okay, well let’s steer it more towards the hip-hop side of things
Immortal Technique: Finally! A hip-hop question
[laughs] Well not quite… X-Clan, Wise Intelligent and Paris: They’re all making comebacks at the moment and enjoying [much-deserved] resurgences in popularity. What do you think it is about the mood in hip hop at the moment that’s allowing them to come back into – well not quite “centre stage” but at least a position of prominence?
Immortal Technique: I’m going to say this to that. There are a lot of people who are paid dues and when you open the books on them, you can see all the things they’ve done through out the years. There are a lot of groups who existed during what is called “The Golden Era” of hip-hop. These people are being brought out as (I guess) the marker of what hip-hop used to be – which is the inclusion of many different voices rather than just one. It’s interesting for people to now realise that, in an army (for example) you don’t just have soldiers. You don’t just have people who hold guns: you have medics; you have logistics crews; you have public-relations; you have psy-ops; you have an air-force; you have a navy. You don’t just have guys on the ground with guns: you need tank support to fight a war. Right now, what hip-hop has is just people in the streets with guns. They just show one aspect of hip-hop and that’s why we are not winning. And when I say “We” I mean the community that makes hip-hop. What about all them little kids that are coming out right now through the Garage or Grime or whatever else music you’ve got bumping over there? Are they making that type of paper off the music? No they’re not. Are you controlling the money that you’re music is seeing? Are you making money every time your music plays on the radio? Are y’all niggas getting performance rights for the paper you’re making for other people? Do you own the gun companies that you’re unwittingly promoting when you flash the European weaponry homey! Realise who is getting paid off of what you’re doing? I guess that’s what these people are here to staunchly remind us (the hip hop community) of. That’s one of the biggest messages of all these rappers that were popular during the golden era: “This is how fucked-up the industry is…this is what I made off this classic album.” These brothers have no shame – they’re all in their late-30s/forties/early-fifties and they’re hear to tell people “Look young brother. I’m willing to share my information.” What I know about hip hop and about the business, I learnt not just by learning it myself by going through my own personal struggle but by talking with people like KRS-ONE, Chuck D, X-Clan, Brand Nubian… Those are my brothers. They helped sit me down and allowed me to ask them honest questions like “Yo man! What was going down with this?” And they’ll break it down like “this is what I actually got paid for this classic album and that is what the label got from my hard work.” That information sharing is just as powerful as them coming back and being allowed to be in the public venue and to spit their classic records for people. I think it’s great for people to have these artists back out there doing music and doing concerts. I think a lot of times; a lot of these brothers should get together and do university tours (and community-centre tours – because We shouldn’t discriminate based on people’s economic backgrounds and access to information) where they explain, “Look man! This is how it is.” If you’re rich, you can afford to be skilled in a specific trade but if not, niggas labour all day and then dream about being basketball players or some shit like that. That’s the reality of that yo.
Well then look at those Golden era people and then compare that with, say, Common and Talib Kweli. Whose footsteps are you more likely to be following in with your own career?
Immortal Technique: Ummm…? Who do I want to follow?
Well you say that these people are of a certain age that they don’t really care to appease anyone but then you’ve got the likes of Talib Kweli and Common who are the acceptable face of “conscious” –
Immortal Technique: Whoa. Before I get into that, let’s get something real straight. The revolutionary music that I make is unlike the revolutionary music that’s around now. And, the revolutionary music that I make now is different than what it was when it first came out. Don’t ever think that simply because I make this type of music - or that you hear anybody make this type of music - that you need to automatically lend your support to it. It took a lot for me to garner the respect of the people because I had to go through so much to prove that I’m not a fake. There’s not too much time away from where the industry is going to be wise to that and they’re going to try and find somebody that they can move behind to specifically try to control the agenda of revolutionary hip hop. That is exactly what’s going to happen. Now as to Common and Talib Kweli? I don’t know Common so I don’t speak about niggas I don’t know but in terms of Talib Kweli? I think he’s a very powerful voice and I appreciate that type of music. It’s not to say that I don’t appreciate Common’s contribution to hip hop but I’m only talking about niggas I know. So in terms of that, I’ve never really fashioned myself after him or anybody else. The style that I have is generally more violent and aggressive than that but I’d say that in terms of the political message, there are similarities between the artists that are out now and the artists from the past. I think that the main difference is that since I was born in a third world country, I really try to give a strong perspective from the immigrant generation who came here to America. I speak as the people that are either young and come here or have parents that came here or who have grandparents who came here – everyone can relate to that in some way. [They can relate to] Being that dude that says “well you know what? You’re hating on us but why the fuck do you think we’re here in your country? Why are we here? Because you were in my country. You are the models of success and we want to succeed so that’s why we’re here.” There’s a lot of factors contributing to who Immortal Technique is and it’s not just revolutionary music. There’s a lot of work that needs to be put in: I’m working with prison youth programmes, with food-co-ops, with farmers, and with gang-members to try and talk about real solutions to their problems. We have to realise that all of the major institutions, especially the entertainment institutions were formed by who? By Italian and Jewish gangsters here in America; by people who legitimized themselves; by people who formed their own police departments. When different Europeans came to America, they had to form gangs to legitimize themselves. What did White people from England have to do when they came to America and the natives were in control of the land? They formed gangs, killed all of them and they legitimized themselves as a Federal government – a principle that they stole from the Iroquois nation by the way. What is important to realize is that while we are in the process of legitimizing ourselves and making that transition (like everyone else has), don’t point to Black and Brown people here (or in any other country) and go “You’re all just gangs.” – Oh really!? Well what were you doing when you were tribes back in the day? What were you when you went here and went there? You want us to legitimize ourselves because you don’t want to see drama like you saw back in the day. You don’t want to have a Northern Ireland policed-state no more – and you know you don’t fucking belong there either! So respect the fact that we’re trying to change and We’re trying to do something real. Respect the fact that We’re trying to evolve as a struggle because, right now, We’re looking for practical solutions to owning our own homes, own our own country and have a say in our economy. But if you keep fucking with us…We’re not too far from the edge homey so don’t push! There’s not too many other niggas that are saying that so I do what I do.
So let’s talk a little bit about this long-awaited new album, The Middle Passage? Can you tell me, what is your “Middle Passage” – what is this liminal phase and how will it differ from the Revolutionary series?
Immortal Technique: The Middle Passage is going back to what we were talking about earlier (The Slave Trade). It’s the clear and present idea that… Huhhhh… In the underground, I’m free. But when I step through all that to the commercial realm, I start to realise how much slavery is involved in that: how much control you lose and how the perception that you’re living better is really based on your want to perceive it that way. People always say “We have it so much better here in America” Well the reason you have it so much better here is because you made “here” so much better: with your culture; your food; your contributions to the economy. Without that contribution from immigrant people, what would America be? What would the UK be? British food sucks.
[laughs]
What would the UK be without the Jamaican spots? Without Reggae? Without the contributions of Our people? We really need to ask ourselves and have these dialogs and say – well people are always saying, “What hip hop has done for Black people…for Latino people.” Really? Well then let’s talk about what hip-hop’s done for White people? Who owns all the labels? Who owns all the radio stations? Who owns all the manufacturing plants that make the music? Who owns all the publishing? Who owns all the mastering plants? Who are the publicists? Who owns all the websites? Who owns all the television and radio channels? Who makes all the videos? Who owns the film that makes the videos? Who owns all the clubs that muthafuckas perform at? Who owns all the equipment? Who invented all the equipment and who holds the patents for all that which we use in order to make hip-hop? Noimans is not a Black man – neither is the dude who made Pro-Tools homey.
[laughs]
So I think White people should be very very thankful that there’s hip-hop! Where would White people be without hip-hop? But I think that before we make this a Black/White issue again –
No I understand what you’re saying – it’s about engaging in dialog
Immortal Technique: I’m just saying that before we make this a Black/White issue (because I don’t want people to think that I lean on race in order to talk about music) it’s a serious issue and I think that when it comes to artists and their freedom, I see a pattern through out the years that no one can deny (I don’t care who you are and you can’t apologise for it) it is something that’s been specifically done to Our people where You’ve stolen Our music. When I talk about “The Middle Passage,” that’s because that’s exactly what You’re still doing: You’re stealing Our Art. Now when I say “You” I’m not directing this in a racial way, I’m directing it now at the new enemy, which is the corporate structure in America that creates generic music. We have to fight this by learning the business and by understanding it – by saying “’ight well, if you’re going to corporate to try and steal from Us, We’ve got to incorporate Ourselves and work like a machine within our specific group for Our goals and agenda. We have to work together as an army for ourselves rather than joining your army to go fucking die in Iraq for your economic desires. We need to form our own army to fight for what the fuck we need right here.” So “Middle Passage” has that sort of duality to it. It’s a record that I’ve been working on…I would say, for the better part of two years. It’s a very powerful record. The music is very – I’m not going to say “Violent” because people do know me for being on the forefront of Street-hop and being a real aggressive dude – But I would say that this album is very-very Violent. I don’t mean “Violent” in terms of promoting violence but it speaks on the violence that’s going on in the world. You’ve got people over there –especially British politicians – who like to blame hip hop for everything. That’s an interesting notion considering that White people buy most hip-hop and yet they’re not the ones that are being targeted for all the random violence that occurs in the world. If You’re saying that hip-hop’s at fault, well then how come the Rich White people are the ones who buy all the Rap records? Why is the violence not prevalent in their community? It obviously has so much more to do with the economics of how a people live. Don’t blame it on a race and don’t use hip-hop to scapegoat us for problems that they create in the community. All this means is that those politicians in your country obviously have become so disconnected from the youth that they don’t even know what the fuck is going on. They’re trying to pander to adults and trying to be seen being tough on crime but yet they’re so fucking stupid, they don’t even know what’s going on in their own community…bitch-ass niggas! Anyway, you guys have squeezed forty-five minutes out of me now so one more question yeah.
OK. Stylistically, you’ve kept guest-appearances to a minimum and your production has been very stark
Immortal Technique: I will say this. I definitely have done a bunch of guest appearances, they just haven’t come out yet. I had to turn down a lot of stuff in order to finish my record. That was my primary focus: I was just 100% on making this album and getting the right beats. A lot of things are different about this new album: we had to restructure our studio; I had to get a different style of sound; I restructured the flow of what I did to make it even more powerful… I had strep throat for six-seven consecutive months. I lost my voice for like three of those months. I had to learn how to use both sets of my vocal cords which is a tough thing to have to learn how to do. If I yell in my regular voice, it really hurts so I need to bring in air and start breathing with my diaphragm right next to my lungs so I can have more energy and power in my voice. Naturally, I’ve gotten older and my voice has gotten a little deeper and so has the way I spit because of the way I breathe now. There’s a lot of things that have had to mature about me and I think that over these years, there’s going to be a lot of things that have happened – some of them I’m definitely going to get to in the album but some of them I’m also going to cover in the Green Lantern mixtape that’s coming out.
Okay then. I’m sorry I’ve kept you for so long but I’ve got pages of questions I would have liked to have asked you. But just to wrap it all up then, if you’ve got any shoutouts and any messages that you couldn’t get into the interview? The floor is yours….
Immortal Technique: I just want to shout out: ukhh.com; shout out my homey Mist; shouts to my homey Semtex; all my supporters from out there; all the people that are doing music – especially my peoples Poisonous Poets, Klashnekoff and the other Brothers that I see making moves; the people that are creating their own type of music that comes out of hip hop (y’know, there are a lot of people who are resentful that anybody else tries to make another kind of hip hop but I think that’s cool. If you go make some new shit and call it yours, I don’t care whether you call it “Garage” or “Grime” or whatever else the fuck y’all niggas want to call that new type of Crunk shit that y’all have that’s real fast – whatever, that’s cool!). Imma tell y’all niggas this: own your music; own who you are; own yourself. If you don’t own yourself then another muthafucka does and then you aint nothing but a slave. You can wave the guns and you can talk all reckless but you’re still somebody else’s little dog. So don’t be mad at me you little fagot: be mad at the muthafuckas who own you if you don’t own yourself. I not talk to workers muthafuckas! I don’t talk to bitchass niggas. The only reason that I communicate with slaves is to free them – and only then if you want to get free. If you want to get free, brother, I’ll give you whatever advice I possibly can. I’m not going to sit there and argue with niggas that want to stay on the plantation. If you want to stay there, you can stay there muthafucka! I aint got time to waste talking to you if you want to stay on the plantation. It’s not just about independence but being in control of the industry in which you work and I think that’s a beautiful thing. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t care what kind of music you make, (whether it’s hip hop in the UK or Arabic hip hop or Spanish hip hop or whatever the fuck it is you make) please, study the culture and own your own music. Own your own masters, own your publishing and be a man. And if you’re a woman doing this shit, be a woman.
…And there you have it. … HUUUUUUGE respect goes out to ‘Tech for his erudite forthrightness and cheers to Myst of So Empire management for his invaluable assistance. Immortal Technique’s Looooooooong-awaited third album, The Middle Passage is out soon* on Viper Records (Distributed by Babygrande). In the meantime, be on the look out for his collaborative mixtape project with notorious beef-mongering mixtape maestro DJ Lantern.
If you are an artist (or that artist’s management, label or publicist) with as much insight and energy to offer the world as Immortal technique, you need to holla at Dino (dinogoldie@hotmail.com) for an interview. Time-wasters and talentless wankers need not apply.
…
http://www.viperrecords.com/about/about.shtml
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=4010185
http://www.babygrande.com/artists.jsp?artist=14
© Copyright 2007 D Goldie for Conspiracy Worldwide.
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